Peter
00:10-00:15
Well, welcome back to the middle of culture. I am one of your co-hosts, Peter.

Eden
00:15-00:20
And I'm forget about it, Eden. Forget about it.

Peter
00:21-00:26
That's excellent. I was not expecting that. I love it. I love it. That was great.

Eden
00:25-00:43
I just spent I just spent some time on the Jersey Shore. So forget about it. That's not what people sound like down the Jersey Shore. It's fine. I didn't know what other voice to s to make, so you got forget about it. That is not what people sound like in Jersey, but that's fine.

Peter
00:43-00:45
It was great though. It was great. I liked it.

Eden
00:45-00:45
Thank you.

Peter
00:45-00:45
Big fan.

Eden
00:45-00:46
Thank you so much.

Peter
00:46-00:48
Big fan. Well, how the heck have you been, Eden?

Eden
00:49-00:59
Forget about no, just kidding. I've been fine. It's been very warm, but I'm here. I'm present. I'm accounted for. How about yourself?

Peter
00:58-01:53
Very good. I am well also. I've had some time off the last couple of days. I took this week off. And tomorrow we head over to Boise for a three-day swim meet, which will be fine. It will be fun. It will be fun. It's just, it's a lot. Of swimming. It's getting there at like 6:45 in the morning so that he can warm up. And then the meat goes until 12:30, and then it's Getting him lunch and letting him rest and everything before we're back in the evening for finals from six to eight. Fortunately, thank goodness on Sunday they usually make the finals from four to six. So that we can get back on the road and drive back home. But, you know, it's been good. It's been kind of low-key. No travel for the first half of the week, just the second half.

Eden
01:54-01:56
How uh how far away is Boise from y'all?

Peter
01:58-02:07
I don't know exactly how many miles. In terms of time, it will take us about three hours, fifteen, three and a half hours to get there.

Eden
02:06-02:10
Okay, so Midwest close is what I'm hearing.

Peter
02:10-02:21
Yes, but it feels far because I would, number one, rather go to Salt Lake every single time, and Salt Lake is an hour closer.

Eden
02:18-02:19
Mm-hmm.

Peter
02:21-02:30
So Yeah, so like Salt Lake is I mean it's less than two hours from our door to mom and dad's.

Eden
02:21-02:24
Okay, sure. Sure, sure, sure.

Peter
02:31-02:49
If we go down to downtown Salt Lake, it's about two hours to 10 depending on traffic. About 215, 220 to the airport there. Whereas again, to get over to Boise, it's at least three hours. And it's a much worse drive. It's just so ugly and boring, and but that's okay.

Eden
02:48-03:19
You know, that's fair. And I was I was kind of joking about Midwest close, but however, anyone who's lived in the Midwest will tell you. Midwest close is a real thing, where people are like, Oh, it's not that far. And you're like, How far is it? And they're like, Oh, Minneapolis, it's like four and a half hours away. And you're like That's not that far to you. And when you live in butt fuck nowhere Midwest, yeah, the answer is that is pretty close. So that is where we live. A good three to five hour drive from literally any metropole.

Peter
03:20-04:11
I was going to say, we we really are we are just sort of the the Not quite, but getting towards Pacific Northwest equivalent of that, where, again, it is Salt Lake is our closest, and that's a couple hours. But anything beyond that, it's, you know, we're getting up into the three-plus-hour range. And that's fine. That's what I grew up to. Growing up in Utah, I was kind of used to things being more spread out. But then after 10 years out in the East, it was. It was a lot closer. You know, we can drive nine hours and still be going to a a town in the same state. you drive nine hours, especially starting up in New Hampshire where we used to live, and you've gone through like eight or nine states by that time, depending on how you drove.

Eden
04:09-04:16
I was going to say, you're in Virginia you're in Virginia nine hours after leaving North Caro or New Hampshire.

Peter
04:13-04:22
Yeah, exactly. So Oh yeah, 100%.

Eden
04:16-04:21
You've you are fresh out of New England completely and in the South.

Peter
04:23-04:27
So it's a little different, but that's okay. Well, what you been checking out?

Eden
04:27-05:21
Um, like I said, uh we were out of town um for a lot of the last uh week or so. Um we went to Jersey To Cassie had a friend who'd passed away last summer, so we went out to Jersey for kind of a celebration of life for him. But one thing that we did on our way out there is we decided to Car camp, or as I have liked to start calling it, carmp. We went carping. And what does that mean, you might ask, dear listener? Um, well That means that we have a fancy pants tent that goes on the back of our uh SUV and turns it into a tent. So, you can get nice airflow. We have a fancy blow-up mattress that is perfectly sized to fit in the back of an SUV. Um, I have a nice battery powered power pack that is enough to last thirty six hours of CPAP blowing if necessary.

Peter
05:21-05:21
Okay.

Eden
05:21-05:24
So I can even take my CPEP camping with me.

Peter
05:24-05:24
Uh-huh.

Eden
05:24-05:29
Because otherwise, I would be like, No, I'm not camping. I need to plug in somewhere. But I had a battery pack.

Peter
05:28-05:28
Yep.

Eden
05:29-05:36
And let me tell you, sleeping is not comfortable in the back of the car. Unfortunately.

Peter
05:35-05:37
I believe that. I believe that.

Eden
05:36-09:38
Unfortunately, I don't know where the disconnect is. I don't know if it is the specific mattress we got. I don't know if it is the concept of blow-up mattress in the back of a car. I don't know if it is the concept of I am not in my very nice Lebeda mattress because I am kind of a prima donna when it comes to the bed that I sleep on. Many such cases, every time we go out of town, I sleep poorly because every Hotel mattress sucks ass, and that's just life, and that's okay. But this was not great, but I'm eager to try it again. We'll be trying it again when we go on our next trip in a couple of weeks. We're going to try to ameliorate some of the biggest problems, like take an actual pillow instead of a blow-up pillow. And I don't know. We'll see how it goes. I'm willing to try it a second time. But that does mean that I didn't have a whole lot of time to do pop culture stuff. I did read a lot more of the manga City, which I've mentioned, I think, previously. It is the follow-up to Nichijo by the guy who did Nichijo. Very similar, sort of. Gags and feel, well, slightly different premise. Instead of mostly being centered around the kids at a school, this is mostly about all of the people who live basically within a few city blocks of each other in the city. which is why it's called City. So I've read a bunch of more volumes of that, and it really is delightful. It may be better than Nichijo, which is saying something because I have spoken highly. The praises of why I think Nichio is so great and City might be better. And then, most importantly. The anime adaptation, Snitty the Animation, started two weeks ago. And let me tell you, it's a ding dang delight. It looks incredible. Here, I am going to send you A video that has the opening, like whatchamacallit? The OP, just so you can get a flavor for what it looks like. This show is incredible. It's really, really something. They apparently, it's made by the same people who did Nichi Joe. Same company, Kyoto Animation. And I had never really been that familiar with them. I knew that they did Niche Joe, which is an extremely good show, better than the comic, even. And then I heard that they were the ones who were going to be doing this version of City, and I was excited about it. So I looked a little more into Kyoto Animation, kind of what they had done, and They're just like a really cool anime studio that, like, famously and uncharacteristically for the medium, does not overwork people. And like takes their time to make a good show that is not rushed and is not like burning people up because they're having to work so hard, which I appreciate that. And they just like Knock it out of the park. It's so incredible. And, you know, the first two episodes, like I said, are out so far. And when it started, I was, I hope this is good. I don't know if it'll be as good as Nichijo. And then it got to the chapter where it introduced Wako, who is my favorite character in City. And it just nailed it perfectly. Like, it encapsulated everything that I love about that comic, everything I love about that character, into this, like. Two to three minute short little story about this is Waco. Here's your first introduction to her. Here is her praying to have a good day to the God that she invented yesterday. And, like, it's delightful. It is such a cool show. I am very excited to see the rest of it. It's a weekly animation, so it's coming out every week. And I am very excited to see where it goes moving forward because I think it is really, really good.

Peter
09:38-09:39
Cool.

Eden
09:39-09:40
The only other thing I will.

Peter
09:39-09:40
That is a fun.

Eden
09:41-09:42
Oh, go ahead.

Peter
09:41-09:48
I was just going to say that is a fun animation style. I was watching it while you were talking about it, and it is, it does look like a lot of fun.

Eden
09:48-10:53
Yeah, they worked really hard with Keichi Arawi, the mangaka, the creator of the comic. He apparently was not really involved with the Nichijo production. Like, they basically did that on their own. So, it does make a few departures from the comic. Especially stylistically, there's like a lot more focus on like really kind of soft, bucolic, pastel-y backgrounds in the Nichijo anime, which is not what the comic looks like. But this just looks like the comic. Like, they clearly brought him in and they were like, We want this to look like your comic. And so we're just going to put it in color. And that's basically the only difference. They really have captured it perfectly. And one of the things that I really think is interesting about Kyoto Animation as a studio is they still do everything analog. Every single one of those images you saw was drawn with pen. With an ink pen and/or brush, actually. They mostly use brushes. To do all of that. And that's incredible because that is just not how things are done these days.

Peter
10:50-10:51
That's cool.

Eden
10:54-11:49
They even did like the swipe frames, the in-between frames between the keyframes with ink, with brushes. Because they were like, Are we really gonna brush all of the interframes? And the director like, Hell yeah, we're gonna brush all the interframes. Get to painting. And so it just looks it looks like shows don't look these days. Like you don't see shows that look like this very often. And it's really delightful. And I can't really think of anything else worth mentioning. I read City, I watched City, I went and saw a movie, but we'll be talking about that as the main event. I read a few books while I was gone, but nothing of note. I read the first three volumes of Roll Over and Die: I Will Fight for a Normal Life with My Love and My Cursed Sword, or some terrible title like that. A terrible name. I will fight for an ordinary life with my love and my cursed sword.

Peter
11:45-11:46
Okay.

Eden
11:50-12:02
What the fuck is that? But it was okay. I didn't hate it. I didn't stop reading. I s I read three volumes of it, but I wouldn't say it's good. I wouldn recommend it to anyone, but it was fine. And that's kind of what I've been up to.

Peter
12:01-12:01
All right.

Eden
12:02-12:03
What about you?

Peter
12:03-12:28
So I have been up to You know, not a lot. I was getting ready to go on this take this time off. And so I I haven't done as much as I would have liked because always the week before time off is just brutal, and the week after.

Eden
12:28-12:29
Oh yeah.

Peter
12:29-12:35
Time off is equally brutal. So, you know, we pay on both ends, but that's just the way it is.

Eden
12:31-12:32
Oh yeah.

Peter
12:36-12:50
So, you know, I have not been playing any video games. I keep thinking, oh, I should pick a game and play it. And Or, like, I'll launch Steam up and some things will update, and I'll, Oh, yeah, I should play that. And then I don't.

Eden
12:51-12:51
Mm-hmm.

Peter
12:51-13:05
But that's okay. I have been doing a little bit of reading. I'm still just chipping away at wind and truth as far as the story goes. I am on day seven. The whole story takes place over. uh ten days.

Eden
13:05-13:05
Okay.

Peter
13:05-13:10
So it sounds like I'm seventy percent of the way in. I am not that far.

Eden
13:10-13:21
Now That should be 700 pages into a book.

Peter
13:11-13:17
But you know, I'm like seven hundred something pages in and I only have, you know, another five hundred and fifty or so to go.

Eden
13:21-13:24
That tells me you should be in book three of that book. Why is that one book?

Peter
13:24-13:24
Yeah.

Eden
13:24-13:27
Why is that less than one book? I should be in book three.

Peter
13:27-13:36
It's a the Stormlight Archive is those books are a little overstuffed, I will put it that way.

Eden
13:27-13:30
No book longer than 250 pages, please.

Peter
13:36-14:14
So But I did recently, as in last night, finish Atomic Habits that I had been reading. I think it's a decent book. I think it's got some good Sort of ideas of ways to either make it easier to break habits that, you know, I want to, or Just again, some interesting ideas of how to either tie things together or sort of create habit cues for myself to help with that process. So, I enjoyed it. It's an easy read. It doesn't take long to read, and it was quick and easy to get through.

Eden
14:14-14:16
Here's a question I have for you.

Peter
14:14-14:15
So, yes.

Eden
14:16-14:50
Because you mentioned atomic habits last time, and I was going to bring this up, but then we got talking about other stuff. I didn't really get back to it. How Does making habits work for you as a person? Because I'm curious how it works for you. Because as a person with severe diagnosed ADHD, I can't make habits the way that every single one of these books says you make a habit. Like, I am 41 years old. I still have to remind myself every single day you need to brush your teeth.

Peter
14:44-15:37
Sure It would, it would.

Eden
14:50-15:52
I have never been able to make an effective habit out of brushing my teeth, and that is true of everything. I have to concertedly and conscientiously make the choice. I can't seem to create habits the way that all of these, you know, ha habit-forming books or advice guides or things like that are all like You know, here are some tools, here are some ways to do it. You do it for, you know, a week, 36 days, a month. A hundred days. It depends on who you ask, but there's always a place where they're like, if you do it concertedly for X amount of time, it will become a habit that you don't have to think about. And every time that happens, I think, God, wouldn't it be great to not be mentally ill? I don't know what that's like because I am mentally ill and I am unable to make habits in that way. So I'm curious, can you are you able to like utilize those tips and create long-lasting habits like that? Or is it a constant struggle for you?

Peter
15:52-16:17
So I'm going to answer that question, but I'm going to preface it by saying And I don't recall this book ever specifically saying that these things would become automatic to the point you don't have to think about them. And that's good because I think anything that tries to posit that you'll get to a point where you don't have to think about it is bullshit.

Eden
16:07-16:08
Sure.

Peter
16:17-16:41
It just is. It is. So I think, I mean, especially in this day and age, I think we all have attention issues. I do not have the diagnosis of ADHD. My wife does. She's been diagnosed as adult ADHD. I don't. Do I have tendencies? Of course I do. We all do to some degree or another.

Eden
16:42-16:47
And as you said, modern society, especially twenty-first century society, bakes that into us, baby.

Peter
16:42-16:48
But so, so 100%.

Eden
16:47-17:01
We want the constant dopamine hit and we want things to be very short. There's a reason why TikTok and Instagram are as popular as they are. And it's because we don't sit down to watch two and a half hour movies. We sit down to watch two and a half hours of two-minute reels.

Peter
17:01-17:32
Correct. But to that point, I absolutely can. Make habits to some degree. Do I still have to sometimes think about them? Yes. Is it something that becomes automatic? No. But for me, what it becomes is. The thought that I should do that thing seems to be what comes more automatically. So, for example, I have a couple of medications that I take, and I was having a hell of a time remembering to do them.

Eden
17:26-17:33
Okay. Sure.

Peter
17:32-17:39
And so, following the idea of linking habits, you know what I never forget to do in the morning?

Eden
17:39-17:44
Hm Okay, sure.

Peter
17:39-18:23
Put in my contacts. Never, ever. Never, ever, because I don't like wearing my glasses and I do like wearing my contacts. And so I get out of bed, and the first thing I do is I walk in and I put in my contacts. So I then said, that's when I take my medication. And I put it right there by my contact thing. So I put in my contacts, I set the bottle down, I see that, and then I take it. I still had to think about that for a while. And I've been doing this for a couple of years. I still will have to sometimes ask myself, did I remember to take them this morning? So it's not completely automatic, but the friction is significantly less.

Eden
18:21-18:21
Mm-hmm.

Peter
18:24-20:31
So I guess one of the ways I would think about this, and this is of course how I think about it because of just my education and everything, I think of habits are like enzymes for our life. Everything we do, there's an activation energy needed to make that thing happen. And biologically, enzymes lower that activation energy so that Chemical reactions happen at lower energy states. They require less energy input for them to happen. And that's what I think building habits kind of is. It doesn't mean it doesn't still take some energy to make that thing happen. But that activation energy is significantly lower. And so that's where I find it to be useful. I have gotten really good at Journaling. Journaling has been one of the things that I wanted to incorporate in my life this year, the year 2025. And I journal twice a day. I journal once in the morning in a handwritten journal that has a certain structure to it. And it is intentionally handwritten so that it's a little slower, it's a little more contemplative, it requires me to kind of slow down. By making it handwritten, I add some friction to the process because that's what I want out of that morning journaling process. In the evening, I do that electronically. And maybe I type it, but honestly, more times than not, I dictate it so that it happens as quickly as possible, so that it is more of a large-volume brain dump. It is July 16th. All of those books and all the not all of them, but a lot of these books say, oh. You know, it's 21 times or 21 days or it's 30 or it's 42 or it's 60. Like you said, everybody's different. And I think it's in part because it's probably Bogus. There isn't a number. I think that the number has to do. With a number of different things, including what is the reward? When do we, how quickly after doing the thing, do we get a reward? Because that reinforces a habit more quickly. How much energy does it take, again, to do the thing? The more energy it's going to take, the more times you're going to have to do it.

Eden
20:31-20:32
Mm-hmm.

Peter
20:32-20:42
But the reason I say all this is I've still missed a few days. Now, I feel like it's definitely a habit, and it's not something that I have to be like, oh, I should go write my journal.

Eden
20:36-20:37
Sure.

Peter
20:42-20:59
But there are still some times where it's like, I'm getting ready for bed and I have to, oh, wait, I haven't done this yet. I need to go do that. So, I don't think it ever gets completely automatic, but it definitely, like I say, it lowers that activation energy needed to do the activity, at least in my experience.

Eden
20:58-20:59
Okay, cool.

Peter
20:59-21:00
So.

Eden
21:00-21:01
Interesting.

Peter
21:01-21:03
Yeah, that's kind of how it works for me.

Eden
21:01-21:15
Well, I I'll just say I'm jealous because at this point, I have at this point I have a habit tracker app that I have installed specifically so I could track those habits.

Peter
21:07-21:12
I'm sorry. Yeah.

Eden
21:14-22:09
I don't even open it to track it anymore. But what I do use it for is at 620 it screams at me, don't forget to drink some Metamucil. And I'm like, oh, fuck, Metamucil. And then I go take the Metamucil. And then at 6:30, it says, don't forget to brush your goddamn teeth. And I'm, fuck. And then I go brush my teeth. And, like, sometimes I look at it and, I'll get to that in a minute. And then it does not happen that day. But, like, I just, for whatever reason, and I know Cassie is the same way. We both are diagnosed with ADHD. And we both just have a hell of a time making habits. Even though these are things that we want to do, things we feel would be useful, things we feel would be beneficial, things we feel would make our lives better. And both of us are just like. I mean, I'm going do my damnedest, but when I forget, I'll just be like, well, dust yourself off and try again, as the Aaliyah song says, because you're going to fuck up.

Peter
22:10-22:18
Yeah. No, that's true. That is true. And that is I'm sure that is a little difficult. So I bet.

Eden
22:16-22:18
It's annoying.

Peter
22:18-22:19
I bet.

Eden
22:20-22:22
Anyway, what else have you been checking out?

Peter
22:22-25:10
So not a lot of new music, but a couple new singles of upcoming albums have come out in the last couple of weeks. That have me very excited. Are you familiar at all with Raphael Weinroth Brown? So, Raphael Weinroth Brown is a cellist. Who has a couple like some solo stuff? He'll do cover, cello covers, not quite in the like. Apocalyptica vein where, you know, they're trying to turn it into like a metal song or something. It still sounds like cello. But I like his stuff a lot. He has a chamber group, a chamber trio called Musk Ox that is him on the cello. Another person on Viola and then a classical guitarist. I love their music. They've got three albums. Well, he has a new album coming out and There have been a couple singles that have been released, and I am super jazzed for that. They're very cool. I highly recommend his stuff. If you really want to go listen to a fun album of his, I would listen to his previous album, which I am going to find right now because. Of course, I am blanking on the title of it. He's played on a lot of different metal albums and stuff as well. He's contributed cello. He's. Done stuff for Leprus, for again, he actually did something on a Fates Warning album. He's done, he's done a ton of stuff. But Worlds Within, there we go. That's, I knew Worlds was in there somewhere. Worlds Within is one of his albums. There's Worlds Within and then Worlds Within Live. The live version is cool to listen to. Because each track was recorded again just live, him sitting there with a whole bunch of loop pedals in front of him so that he could Do something, record it, and then start looping it, and again play on top of it. So they're all songs that sort of gradually build as he's playing on top and then looping it and stuff. But it's a great album. I really love it. It's beautiful. And then Paradise Lost. Paradise Lost, one of probably my favorite bands. I love Paradise Lost. They have a new album, Ascension, coming out, and they dropped the second single last Friday. And boy, both of the two tracks that they have dropped so far are bangers. I am very excited to To listen to this album. It is pre-ordered and I'm waiting for it to get here. A couple other real quick things. I continue to watch Taskmaster almost every day. I love that show. I continue to love it the more I watch it.

Eden
25:10-25:11
It's a good show.

Peter
25:11-25:37
It is. It's fun. We're going back. We're currently in series four, just kind of plugging away. And it's just delightful to sit back, kind of turn my brain off, watch something for which there are zero stakes, and just enjoy it. The other thing I'll mention when it comes to TV is Gareth continues to watch The Office. I continue to be simultaneously repulsed and perplexed by that show's popularity.

Eden
25:37-25:38
I hate it.

Peter
25:37-25:39
I can't stand it.

Eden
25:38-25:49
Here's the thing. I think that show sucks so bad. I think that the characters are not likable and not even and not fun to watch in a Oh, these people are unlikable, but they're fun to watch.

Peter
25:41-25:44
Yes, no.

Eden
25:49-26:00
Kind of way. No, I just don't like them. I don't think they're interesting. And I don't understand. I know there are people who watch that show constantly, like they've seen it a dozen or more times.

Peter
26:00-26:00
Yeah.

Eden
26:00-26:07
And it perplexes me. I don't like them. I don't understand what people see in them. I don't get it.

Peter
26:07-26:31
I'm glad you're not the only one who feels that way. I literally have to leave the room when he's watching it and often put in noise-canceling headphones so that I do not have to listen to it because I find it just that. Overwhelmingly, aggressively obnoxious. So, and then final thing I'll mention before we jump into the topic because it was released today.

Eden
26:26-26:26
Yeah.

Peter
26:32-27:10
The Incomparable Podcast Network is a network I listen to a number of their shows on. I like them, big fan. I'm a member of the Discord and stuff. Hang out with some of the hosts virtually that way. They have one of their shows is called The Incomparable Game Show. It has a whole bunch of different games that people get together and play, and they're often fairly funny. But one of the recurring games is called Random Pursuit. One of the the hosts, Erika Ensign. She has pretty much every version of Trivial Pursuit that's ever been released. And she takes the cards, she shuffles them all together, and then people just play.

Eden
27:05-27:06
Cool.

Peter
27:10-28:31
And you roll, she picks a card from the top card, and that's whatever addition you get. You roll a D6, that determines which question on the card you get, and then you go for it and you answer it. If you'll remember, we talked quite a while ago now about Uncanny Magazine. Uncanny Magazine currently is doing their Kickstarter for year 12. I urge everyone who is interested. Please go and support them for a little bit. It's like we kind of talked about, it's independent, independent publication that I think intentionally goes a long way to ensuring that underrepresented voices have representation in fantasy and science fiction. And I think that's I think that's a cause worth Worth supporting. And so, first of all, please, anybody who's listening, if that's something that you're interested in, or at least give it a consideration, to support Uncanny Magazine Year 12. One of the tiers to support Uncanny Magazine on Kickstarter includes being a guest on Random Pursuit. In the year 11 Kickstarter, I kickstarted at that level, and so I was a guest on Random Pursuit. So a week and a half ago, or so it was, I think it was the 5th of July. I was a guest, and that episode posted today.

Eden
28:31-28:32
Nice.

Peter
28:32-28:45
So you can go and listen to Random Pursuit and see how myself and a number of other contestants did and find out just how bad I embarrassed myself.

Eden
28:43-28:45
Oh, so it went that well, huh?

Peter
28:45-28:47
Well, I don't want to spoil anything.

Eden
28:47-28:50
Yeah, that's fair. You gotta leave people wanting more.

Peter
28:50-28:52
I gotta leave people wanting.

Eden
28:51-28:53
You gotta leave them to go uh listen to that other podcast.

Peter
28:53-29:21
That's exactly right. Here's what I'm gonna do, though. I'm gonna edit this part out when I produce it. But, well, so if anybody's interested, support Uncanny, listen to that episode, find out how I did. And let's get on to our main topic. So we were both able to go see a little movie this week. This week, end of last. I don't remember exactly when you saw it.

Eden
29:21-29:25
ISOT Monday Nights of.

Peter
29:22-29:39
Okay, so I saw it Monday afternoon. Monday, I went to about Monday at 12:30 because Gareth had to work that afternoon and then he ended up not having to work. But anyway, that was the showing we could go to that he could see it. We went. separately, but we went and saw a little movie called Superman.

Eden
29:40-29:41
Superman, I of.

Peter
29:41-29:52
Superman. Now we've talked before about this movie as it was preparing to come out and some of our feelings and reactions to the trailer. And now we've seen it.

Eden
29:52-30:03
We have You know what?

Peter
29:52-30:02
So I have a whole long thing ready to go. But before I jump in, Eden, what were your thoughts on Superman?

Eden
30:03-30:31
It was better than I thought it was gonna be. I had a Pretty uh as I as I wrote it in the comics or as I mentioned in the comic store today to one of the uh folks who came in was asking us about it, which is why we went Nossad. We went as a shop to go see it um because, you know, the boss band was like, people are gonna ask, people are gonna wanna know what we as as comic aficionados, uh comic professionals even.

Peter
30:25-30:26
Yeah, totally.

Eden
30:32-30:41
thought about this film. So he paid for all of us to go see it. And I will say that I thought it was a pretty good movie.

Peter
30:41-30:42
Good.

Eden
30:42-30:47
And that is that is maybe damning a little bit with faint praise, but you know what?

Peter
30:42-30:43
Nice.

Eden
30:48-30:52
I'll take it, DC. I'll take it.

Peter
30:50-30:53
Totally fair. Totally fair.

Eden
30:52-30:54
How about you? How did you find it?

Peter
30:54-30:58
I went into this movie with low expectations.

Eden
30:58-30:58
Yes.

Peter
30:58-31:40
As we had talked about, it seemed like it was overstuffed. I was worried that it was going to be too James Gunny. I was worried that Again, that they weren't going to get Superman. You know, we've talked a little bit, and you look at Christopher Reeves' original Superman the movie, and we're going to stop there because I think. I think there's a lot of problems with how Superman is portrayed in the rest of even those Superman movies to some degree or another. But I think in that initial movie, He understood, and Richard Donner, I think they understood what makes Superman Superman, what makes him enjoyable.

Eden
31:39-31:39
Oh yeah.

Peter
31:40-31:53
Because you know what it really isn't, for me at least. It isn't that he's the or human. It isn that he's, you know, that's what makes him actually uninteresting.

Eden
31:49-32:39
No. Yeah. And I think when you focus on that, you make a fundamental misunderstanding about what matters about Superman. And that is what makes, you know, the Snyder verse version of Superman and so many other versions of Superman so and honestly, the popular conception, the popular consciousness of what Superman has been for the last 15 or 20 years. Everything since the sh you know, festering turd that is Superman Returns has been what if Superman was dark and edgy? What if in Injustice he's sad because the Joker killed Lois, so now he's murder man? Or what if in the su the Suicide Squad movie he's a murder guy? And it's like that's not interesting. That's not interesting. And you miss the point.

Peter
32:39-33:02
Yeah, I agree. So, given all of that, a little anxiety going in. I I wanted a good Superman movie, though. I don't want anyone to think that do I prefer Marvel Properties over the last twenty years personally? Yes. But I want just I want a good Superman movie. This is no Marvel versus DC thing.

Eden
33:00-33:39
Yeah No, yeah Yeah.

Peter
33:02-33:39
This is a hey, Marvel can make good movies, and sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. And DC We would like them to make good movies. And recently, it's been a lot of they don't. And so, is Superman 2025 a good movie? I don't really know how to answer that. I think the answer is. Let's couch that. Let's change that question. Is Superman 2025 a good comic book superhero movie? That, I don't know, but here's what I will say. Watching Superman 2025 is the most fun I have had watching a Superman movie since I saw Superman 2 as a little kid.

Eden
33:40-33:55
Here's the thing. Here's the thing. And this, I think, goes back to what you were saying. There's a lot of, it's a messy movie. I can see, I can see 45 minutes of that movie that's on the cutting room floor that I wish was still in there, even though I'm happy it was only a two-hour film.

Peter
33:53-33:54
Go again.

Eden
33:55-34:10
And we'll talk about the things that I'm like, I can see the cuts that they did that I wish were still in this movie. But one thing that they nailed. They understood the assignment. This is a goddamned Superman movie.

Peter
34:06-34:11
Yes. Yes, it is.

Eden
34:10-34:20
They understood who Superman was, what makes Superman interesting, what makes Superman a good Character, and they nailed it.

Peter
34:20-34:56
Yes, they did. And so, you know, look, I have seen plenty of superhero movies, and I have enjoyed my time with some of them, and I have not enjoyed my time with a lot of them. I enjoyed, I think, pretty much every minute of this. Yeah, there were parts that I was like, eh, that didn't need to be there. Or there were parts where I was like, I wish we had more time with this. But start to finish, I had a fun time. And when it was done, I did not walk out of that theater going, oh I walked out going, that was fun. I would totally go watch that movie again.

Eden
34:54-34:56
Yeah. Uh-huh.

Peter
34:57-39:50
So let's blow the spoiler horn here. Folks, if you haven't seen this, Maybe don't listen to this part. Or if you're turning into an old person like me who doesn't really care about spoilers, and even if I go in knowing everything, I can still totally enjoy the ride, then go ahead and keep listening. But let's go through a real quick Review, I mean, not review, a real quick sort of plot summary, and then we can talk about what we liked, what didn't work, and maybe what we wish we could have seen either more or less of. So the movie starts out, and we're in Antarctica. We've got snow, and we just get an over-the-top title, you know, some lettering that basically says, Three centuries ago, metahumans first appeared. And then I think it goes, and I could begin this wrong, but it's like, but then, you know, 30 or so years ago, Superman crash-landed. Three years ago, he reveals himself to the world and has been doing stuff. Three weeks ago. He stopped this war erupting between Boravia and Jharhanpur. And then I don't remember if it was like three hours ago and then three minutes ago, but gets down to you know, the hammer of Boravia shows up, and three minutes ago, Superman lost his first fight. And then we see that scene from the trailer. Superman crashes down into the snow. He's got blood dripping out of his mouth. He's gasping for breath. He manages to whistle for crypto. Crypto comes running. After a little interaction between him and crypto, crypto grabs his cape and drags him towards the fortress of solitude, where he then goes in. You meet. The super bots they get him re-energized with a concentrated yellow sunlight radiation, and Superman goes back. To go back at the Hammer of Boravia. In the meantime, he has been followed by the engineer, and they figure she figures out where the Fortress of Solitude is. We get the engineer Ultraman and Lex who decide they're going to infiltrate the Fortress of Solitude. Now, one thing that's important to understand is that While Superman is laying on this table recovering being radiated, there's this video of his parents that's playing and and one of the robots, four, says, you know, oh, this soothes him. This message from his parents soothes him. And so he's sitting there watching it, and then it gets to a point where there's a glitch, and it's because the message was damaged in this transit through space and them crashing. Well, Superman is back in Metropolis, and a little teeny monster gets released, which turns into a big kaiju that's supposed to act as a distraction for him. The Justice Gang, they all team up and they're battling this kaiju while the engineer, Ultraman, and Lex have infiltrated the Fortress of Solitude, which appears for them and opens right up. Curious, how is that happening? The engineer manages to tap into the system and is able to extract this video and then recreate or kind of uncover the missing parts. While the battle against the kaiju is ending, Lex is on an interview and is playing this message. And this message that Superman has taken And used as sort of his motivation to do good because it says, We're sending you there, you know, take care of them, blah, blah, blah. And then the part that glitched out. Is you'll be so much more powerful than them. Conquer Earth. Take as many wives as possible. Restore the Kryptonian race. Immediately, everybody turns against Superman. He surrenders himself to questioning and is given over by the government to Luther, who Sort of has assured them that if necessary, he can control and/or if necessary, kill Superman. Superman gets locked in a pocket universe that Lex has created, where Lex holds all of his enemies. Crypto is in there. Superman gets put in a cell with a meta-human, Metamorpho. Right across this big gap is Metamorpho's little son, who is being kept in a cell. and is being used as leverage toward to o over Metamorpho. Metamorpho, being able to sort of change parts of his body to different elements, then turns his left fist into kryptonite. And there we get Superman trapped in there as he is being sort of, you know, weakened and basically killed by this kryptonite. There's a whole little side plot where Eve Tesmacher and so many other women are infatuated with Jimmy Olson for reasons that are just never clearly, it just doesn't make sense.

Eden
39:46-39:47
So many women.

Peter
39:50-39:52
You just kind of have to take it and roll with it.

Eden
39:50-39:54
That's not true at all. Did you see how hot he was?

Peter
39:53-39:53
Okay.

Eden
39:55-40:03
He had, he had an absolute game. It made all the sense in the world that every, and here's the thing: no, we were talking about this. This is a little diversion in the middle of your thing here.

Peter
40:02-40:04
Okay. I love it. Great. Go for it.

Eden
40:04-40:38
Here's what it is. We were talking about this at the shop. Jimmy Olson is a character who has existed in comics since the 1930s. Consequently, he's been in a lot of comics and has had a lot of girlfriends. And this is what my coworker likes to call the George Costanza effect, where on paper, he should be a loser. But in reality, he has dated so many Hotties that when you think about it over the course of that character's existence, this is a guy who can pull Mad Tail. Like, this is a guy who's got it.

Peter
40:38-40:39
Okay, all right.

Eden
40:38-40:52
And George Costanza is the exact same way, where you're like, he seems like he's such a loser, but he dates like eight hot women during the course of that 15 years of TV. So, no, he really has game, clearly. And Jimmy Olson is the exact same way.

Peter
40:51-40:51
All right.

Eden
40:52-41:03
And so, I think that they just leaned into that. They were like, look at how many hotties with naughty bodies that Jimmy Olson has dated over the decades in the comics. I think he's just popular with the ladies. I got it.

Peter
41:03-41:08
Hey, you know, I'll, oh, I thought it was definitely funny, and I'll accept it.

Eden
41:03-41:06
I get it. I think it was very funny.

Peter
41:08-46:11
It's fine. One of those people who is obsessed with him is Eve Tesmacher, who sends a whole bunch of eventually sends a whole bunch of selfies and they have a little meeting and he asks her, oh, can you help me figure out what's going on here? Anyway, fast forward to Luther is interrogating Superman. He's basically playing Russian roulette with a guy, a guy who was a street vendor who sold Superman food. There's a real brief scene where he talks about he sold Superman food and. He helps Superman get up and out of uh out of uh a little crater that he's been tossed into in one of the fights. The uh Russian roulette goes very wrong, and on the second question, the bullet goes through Malik's head and Malik Dies. This leads to Metamorpho being horrified, and the kryptonite goes away. He manipulates matter enough to create like a mini little yellow sun. That then power Superman up to some degree so that Superman can then go over and get his son. He brings his son back over to him, and then they try and escape for reasons that just reasons Metamorpho cannot carry. His son. So Superman is carrying the little baby as they're flying out of there. They get crypto. In the meantime, Lois Lane has gone and she's recruited help from the justice gang. The only one who offers to help is Mr. Terrific. They go there. Mr. Terrific and Lois have managed to open up. This portal to this pocket dimension. They're trying to get them and help get them out of there. They manage to rescue them. Superman just barely gets out. He's not looking great still. She takes him in Mr. Terrific's spaceship, little flying not spaceship, but his little flying craft thing. to Kansas, where he gets put on his childhood bed and gets enough yellow sunlight that he re-energizes. There is at this Sleuthor is furious at this escape. He creates, he increases the Little Pocket Universe's reactor power to try and lure Superman. which creates a rift that begins, and I think at some point it says that this little beach where they were set up was like 10 miles outside of the city. The ground starts separating, it's moving towards Metropolis. Green Lantern, Metamorpho, and Hawk Girl are trying to Hawk Girl are trying to stop a second Boravian incursion in Jharhampur. Miss Superman has, I think, honestly, one of my favorite scenes, a little scene with his mom and his dad in Kansas. I liked that Pot Kent was still alive. And Ma Kent, she's like, I washed your boots. It's kind of cute. Anyway, Superman goes back to Metropolis, and he and Ol and Mr. Terrific are trying to stop that. The Rift, the Engineer and Ultraman fight them in Boravia. The Justice Gang and Metamorpho manage to Kind of stop the assault with Hot Girl dropping Gurkhos, the president of Boravia, from a large height, implying that he is squished on the ground. In Metropolis, Superman defeats the engineer in a fight and then is fighting with Ultraman, unmasks him, revealing that he is a clone of himself. Hence, his DNA opened the fortress of solitude. In the meantime, you've got Lex Luthor, who, you know, Lex is watching all of this, and we saw this at the very beginning, where Lex is. Studied all of Superman's moves and he knows exactly what Superman's going to do in every situation. So he's calling out numbers and letters, and Ultraman hears that and is able to do that and counter what Superman is doing. And they get a long kind of standoff in the rift. Ultimately, Superman traps Ultraman within a bus that's being pulled into the black hole. Superman, Mr. Terrific, go to the Luther Corp headquarters. They shut down the reactor. They close the rift. And in the meantime, Eve Tesmacher has sent all these selfies to Jimmy Olson with. Information in the back, and they've managed to piece this all and figure out what his plans were, that he was going to get half of Jharhanpur. That half was going to become New Boravia and the other half was going to become Lex Luther or something or other. I don remember what he was going to call it. They publish all of this. Sentiment immediately turns back towards Superman against Luther. Luther gets arrested. The people in the pocket universe are freed. And we get to the end where Superman's recovering from his injuries, and in pops his cousin, Supergirl, drunkenly ready to pick up her dog, Crypto. And then as he's relaxing, we get another scene where number four again says, Would you like to watch the whatever the front of your parents? and says again, it calms him, it soothes him. And this time he's surrounded by a bunch of videos of his uh his youth with Ma and Pa Kent.

Eden
46:11-46:33
Pretty good movie. Pretty good movie. Here's the thing, as you can see, dear listeners, from this synopsis. It skates on the edge of this is too much, James, for two hours plus, but never quite falls off that edge, which I thought was a very impressive balancing act.

Peter
46:24-46:35
Oh, yes, oh yes. Agreed. Agreed.

Eden
46:35-46:41
Because it constantly felt like it was going to be just a little too much, but then was never a little too much.

Peter
46:41-46:52
Yeah. So what let's start off with the negative maybe. What were there things that didn't work? What would you have liked to have seen different or just maybe weren't your favorite parts?

Eden
46:52-47:07
It's not so much things that didn't work, but like I said, things that I wish I'd seen more of. Because with the exception of one scene at the beginning. There's no Clark Kenton in this movie. He's only Superman in this movie.

Peter
47:05-47:05
Uh-huh.

Eden
47:07-47:08
Which is not a bad thing.

Peter
47:07-47:08
Pretty much.

Eden
47:09-48:02
It's not a bad thing at all. But Clark is the thing I like most about Superman. And that is why I think Superman works best in longer form media. That's why Lois and Clark, the new Superman Adventures, like, fuck Dean Kane, obviously. But that show's real good because they had the time and space to breathe and let you see these characters as who they are, a lot more interaction between them, and specifically the whole Daily Planet crew. Those are some of my favorite characters from Superman comics. Cat Grant, Steve Ulrich. Perry White. I love these guys. They're non-entities in this movie. They're in the movie. They each of them have two to four lines, but they're functionally not in the movie, even while they are literally in the movie. And you can tell, you can tell what's happened there.

Peter
48:01-48:28
Like there's I just want to say there's so Not in the movie while still being in the movie, that as Metropolis is falling apart and they go to get into Mr. Terrific's little flying craft. So they can continue to get the story and get it published. We've got some of those names, Cat and whatever the other dude, we've got them coming along.

Eden
48:24-48:55
Steve Ulrich No Yeah.

Peter
48:29-48:54
We have no reason for them to come along other than those are people who, if you know, you'd recognize. I don't know. I had no idea who they were. And I'm like. Why the fuck are they getting in? And then I had the less generous thought was: well, the only reason you had Cat Grant go in is so that you could get the slow motion jumping up and down in joy at the very end of the movie that I was like. Oh, did you really need to do that?

Eden
48:55-49:16
No, i the thing is, you can tell. There is an entire half hour of this movie. Of Clark in the Daily Planet office and the Daily Planet people being around, working together, and like getting through all of those relationships that you can see are implied but not portrayed in the film.

Peter
49:16-49:17
Sure, I agree.

Eden
49:16-49:32
And I would love to have that half hour back in there. Again, I appreciated that it was a two-hour film. More movies should be 90 minutes. We've talked about this at length on this exact podcast. That we are supporters of short film.

Peter
49:32-49:33
It's true.

Eden
49:33-49:42
So I liked that it was short, but I do want there to be like a director's cut that puts all that stuff back in there.

Peter
49:33-49:44
It is true. Yeah, yeah, I would like that as well.

Eden
49:42-50:03
Because I like those characters and I'd like I want you to walk out of that movie saying, Oh, I can see why Jimmy Olsen is a lady killer. Instead of being like, why is Jimmy Olsen such a ladykiller? Because I'm sure that is established in the film. That a rougher cut of the film that is just not in the finished version of the film.

Peter
50:03-50:03
Yeah.

Eden
50:03-50:15
I don't know. What are some of the other things you felt like were missing? I again, I just I wish there'd been more Clark, because I like Clark, but I understand that there was just too many moving pieces to spend really any more time with Clark.

Peter
50:15-50:31
Yeah, and that's the trick is it felt like it was the right length. And so while I would have liked, I would have liked, like, for example, I would have liked to have seen more between Lois and Clark, like you said.

Eden
50:30-50:32
Oh, absolutely.

Peter
50:32-50:36
And I thought that Rachel Brosnahan was great as Lois.

Eden
50:35-50:36
Mhm.

Peter
50:36-51:02
I think one of my favorite scenes in the movie, personally, is when she is interviewing Superman. She's giving Clark a hard time about you. Can't just always interview him. You're interviewing yourself. And she's like, number one, people are going to think that's weird. Number two, she's like. Is that really like journalistic ethics? Is that is that really? Do you really? And he's, Fine, great. I'll go ahead. Let's do an interview with you. And she grills it. Like, she busts his balls.

Eden
51:03-51:05
Yeah, she is eviscerating him.

Peter
51:05-51:09
Yeah, like she does not give him any quarter.

Eden
51:09-51:09
Mm-hmm.

Peter
51:09-51:15
And I like that you see that side of her. You go, okay, no, she's she's badass. Like she, she.

Eden
51:14-51:16
She's a bloodhound.

Peter
51:16-51:59
She is. She knows how to do this job, and she's not going to hold back. And I really enjoyed that scene because you see. Clark getting increasingly frustrated at like just this idea. Why can't you just see it from my point of view? And that's one of, I think, the central conflicts of this movie. What sets this whole thing up is Clark has this idea, and he says it over and over. I had to stop this war. People were going to die. And she's like, Well, but did you know Boravia is an ally of the U. . Did talk to the president? Nope. He just went and did this all on his own. He stopped this war unilaterally. And she's like, Can't you see that doesn't work? You can't behave that way.

Eden
51:58-51:59
Uh-huh.

Peter
52:00-52:06
And in his mind, he is so convinced that it's okay for him to do that because he stopped people from dying.

Eden
52:06-52:06
Mm-hmm.

Peter
52:06-52:44
And she tries to point out: yeah, maybe you stopped people from dying right then, but you didn't fix the problem because you thought you could do it yourself. And I thought that that was a really, really good way to kind of approach this idea that he is still trying to figure things out, even though he's been doing this for three years. He still is having a hard time wrapping his head around the bigger picture because of his inherent goodness and kindness. And like you said at the beginning, the most important thing about this movie is the fact that they understood the character.

Eden
52:44-52:46
Yeah, they absolutely did.

Peter
52:46-53:10
Yeah. And that's what makes it so exciting for me to watch it and honestly look forward to having a chance to watch it again is because they understood the character. And so I can't really again, did it feel a little overstuffed at parts? Well, yeah, because I'll use Mr. Terrific as an example. I liked him, I thought he was great, but I don't know shit about him.

Eden
53:07-53:19
Oh, standout character. Yeah. All you know, you leave that movie, you're like, that is a cool black man with a T on his face and fair play on his sleeves?

Peter
53:12-53:13
But and that's the thing.

Eden
53:19-53:22
Why do his sleeves and the side of his ship say fair play?

Peter
53:19-53:19
Yeah.

Eden
53:23-53:25
What the fuck is that? I don't know.

Peter
53:24-53:41
I have no idea Yeah.

Eden
53:26-53:42
I know comics. I know. You know how much I know about Mr. Terrific? T-Spheres. At least I wouldn't have embarrassed myself like Lois by calling them floaty balls. And that is the extent of my knowledge of who and what Mr. Terrific is. Fair play.

Peter
53:42-53:59
So so so like I say, that's the trick is that there were things in there that I didn't think it was bad they were in there. But because they were in there, I actually ended up wanting more. I felt like we didn't quite get the whole picture.

Eden
53:58-53:59
Mhm.

Peter
54:00-54:08
Like, look, Hawk Girl, I felt like she was just. I don't know. Like, okay, she can fly.

Eden
54:05-54:08
Who who is that? Whost is this? Why should I care?

Peter
54:08-54:16
Sometimes she has wings. Sometimes she doesn't have wings. She screeches when she swoops past, and she's got a big old mace.

Eden
54:16-54:17
Uh-huh.

Peter
54:16-54:18
That's all I know about Hut Girl.

Eden
54:17-54:25
But what version but what version of Hawk Girl is this? Is she a Thanagarian princess? Is she someone who's been also enlisted as a space cop?

Peter
54:22-54:23
I don't know.

Eden
54:25-54:44
Basically, just like Green Lantern, except she got Hawk powers instead of Green Lantern powers? These are different versions of Hot Girl that have existed. All I know about her is she squawks, and she understands that sometimes the greater good is doing a bit of actual violence, and she drops that man and lets him die.

Peter
54:44-54:49
That's exactly right. Also, we know she really doesn't like the name Justice Gang.

Eden
54:49-54:53
Yeah, it's a stupid name. She's right, and Metamorpho and Guy are wrong.

Peter
54:51-54:53
It's a stupid name.

Eden
54:53-54:55
It's a stupid name.

Peter
54:54-55:04
Okay, so let's talk about Guy Gardner because I did not think I did not think I was going to like this character.

Eden
54:59-55:02
Seeing her e chewing like a motherfucker. It was so good.

Peter
55:04-55:14
And holy shit. Like, Nathan Fillion just did it. Like, he did it. You want to punch him in the face sometimes, but you still like him.

Eden
55:14-55:16
No, I don't like him, and that's the point.

Peter
55:14-55:21
And like he, well, I mean, correct.

Eden
55:17-55:22
That's the point of Guy Gardner. You never like Guy Gardner. I like that portrayal of Guy Gardner.

Peter
55:22-55:24
Yes, that's what I mean.

Eden
55:22-55:50
I hate Guy Gardner with my whole heart. My favorite scene in all of Justice League comics. Is the one punch when Guy Gardner is being like an asshole and Batman cold clocks him in the face and he collapses to the ground. And Blue Beetle is there laughing so hard he's crying, and he has to pull his mask with his stupid, like bulging eyes up as he just keeps repeating, One punch! It's the best.

Peter
55:51-55:51
Yes.

Eden
55:51-56:07
And that was, again, the feeling that they brought to Guy Gardner, where you're like, someday they're going to make a Justice League movie, and Guy Gardner's going to be there, and Batman's going to cold clock him, and I will be. Ted Cord saying, One punch.

Peter
56:07-56:16
100%. Yes, you said it right. I love the portrayal, do not like the character. And that's how it's supposed to be.

Eden
56:16-56:17
Absolutely.

Peter
56:16-56:24
So that worked out really well. But what about Lex? What do you think about Nicholas Holt's portrayal of Lex?

Eden
56:23-56:25
Incredible performance.

Peter
56:24-56:25
Agreed.

Eden
56:25-56:46
Incredible performance. Maybe the best live action Lex we've ever seen. Which is saying something because You know, Lex is usually the standout star in any in most versions of uh Superman. Not true in BVS. Uh sorry to you, uh, Jesse Eisenberg. You did not have the juice. I apologize to you, Mr.

Peter
56:45-56:57
No no Yeah, agreed.

Eden
56:46-58:21
Eisenberg. That was a bad portrayal. We'll have no country peach tea. No, thank you. I thought Holt killed it though. And I don't know how much of this is in it and how much of this was channeled into his portrayal. But the fact that he was very nearly cast as Batman in Matt Reeves' Batman movie to lose out at the last second to Pattinson and was very nearly cast as Superman in Superman Legacy and then lost out to Cornsweat at the last second. I got to imagine that if you're Nicholas Holt, you say, okay, I'm going to channel this into my performance, and I'm going to hate this guy with my whole chest because I should be him. And you know what? That's how Lex feels. It feels like Lex is genuinely saying, I should be this man. I should have this power. And I wonder if Nicholas Holt is thinking to himself as he is acting in those scenes. And I'm sure he's like, he he's supposedly like a very nice, very gracious dude. So I'm sure he's like, no, like Corn Switzer right guy for the job. And you can tell on the press junket, he's happy being who he is in the movie. They seem to have really good rapport. Like the two of them seem to really get along with each other. But you do got to wonder, did you use that as a little bit of juice as you were doing this performance of? I could have been the guy. You didn't let me be the guy. I could have been the guy, and maybe I should have been the guy. Because that's who Lex is, and that's how Lex acts.

Peter
58:18-59:33
Yeah. Yeah, no, I thought he was incredible. And I thought it was a very interesting portrayal because Here's what I liked about it. I, and I don't know where this idea came from, but I had this idea that Lex was just going to be super calm, cool, and collected, and logical, and rational the entire time. And it totally makes sense that he's not. And I mean, at the end, as he's like yelling at Superman through the speaker in Ultraman's chest or whatever, he is so worked up at the end, understandably. And again, I think it makes him a more. I think it makes him a stronger character. Like, at one point, he's like, he's screaming, and there like spittle coming from his mouth. And the rest of the team is like, look, we got to, let's close the riff. We got to stop this. And he is just like. No, I will do what, like at all costs. He is like, damn the torpedoes. I will do anything it takes. That's, you know, I'm going to take this guy out. And I kind of like that, yes, he's very intelligent, he's very smart. But he is so enraged that he's kind of losing control.

Eden
59:33-59:33
Mhm.

Peter
59:33-59:43
So I think I mentioned this briefly, but I love the scene.

Eden
59:34-59:38
Yeah, no, it's a it's it's a really effective portrayal.

Peter
59:44-01:01:52
As brief as it is, I love the scene where Clark Kent, because this is one of the few Clark Kent moments, wakes up on the bed at the farm, and he's just sitting out. Looking at the cows, looking at crypto, playing with the cows, eating a bowl of cereal or something. And Pa Kent comes out and sits down next to him. And You know, Superman's having this real crisis because he thought I was sent here to do good. This message. He thinks. He thinks that this message from his Kryptonian parents has been his North Star. That this has been why he does what he does. And then he finds out the reality of why they sent him to Earth. And it has totally shaken him. And he has this moment. And I don't remember exactly what Paw Kent says to him, but I remember it was actually a moment where I truly choked up just a little bit at this scene. And then that's when Clark Kent realizes, no, my North Star are these people right here and how they raised me. And I think that comes through at the very last interaction between Superman and Luther, which Was a little, I don't know if I'd say heavy-handed, but it was a little melodramatic, but I still liked it, where he breaks into their thing and he just straight up says, He says, I'm as human as any of you. I heard, I have emotions, all these things. And that was, again, while it was, it felt a little bit sort of a, oh, see, look, we get Superman thing here that I. I think that there's been so many years, as you put it, of people not understanding what makes Superman an interesting character that I was totally okay with it being just sort of spelled out and broadcast there at the end. Because that is what makes Superman an interesting character.

Eden
01:01:50-01:01:51
Yeah.

Peter
01:01:53-01:02:38
It's the fact that he has all these powers, but he is fallible. And we see that. In this movie, multiple times. We see it with him losing at the beginning. We see it with that interaction with Lois. We see it with him. Again, there's times where he fails. But it's that idea. He recalibrates, he focuses on that. What for him is he realizes, mom, pa kent, that's my that is my Moral compass. That is my North Star. And he gets back in it and he does it. And I thought it was again, I'll just end by saying I really enjoyed it. I don't know if it's a great movie or a good movie, but I think that as far as superhero movies go, I think it's a pretty damn good one.

Eden
01:02:39-01:04:33
Yeah, I agree with you. I had a very good time. I'm eager to see more from the DC Universe team, and I hope that. further films are of this caliber. I want d as you said, I too prefer Marvel uh characters and uh I have tended at least in the last 15, 20 years to prefer Marvel films. But that doesn't mean I don't want DC to be good. I really want them to be good. I want Supergirl to be a good movie. even if I think the comic that I know they're basing it on is pretty good until the last issue when it's really, really bad. But that's because it's Tom King joint and that guy can't write a comic. But I sure hope that they do good. You know, the f 15 seconds she's in this movie, you're like, oh She is fundamentally different than him. And the more you know about who Supergirl is and like the story of who she is as a character, you're like, yeah. She would be fucked up in weird and different ways than Clark is because she didn't get she doesn't have ma and pa ken. She doesn't have that So she has all of the power, all of the strength, but not necessarily that North Star. So I'm eager to see what they do with her. You know, I am very interested to see whatever happens with a Batman in this universe. They have said, no, it's not the Matt Reeves Batman, but maybe it could be like. There's a lot of like, we don't really know. We don't really know. We'll see. I want to see what they do there. I'm curious to see what they do with Wonder Woman. I want it to be good. I will say, however, dear listeners, if you only watch one superhero year or superhero movie so far from 2025, Thunderbolts is a better movie.

Peter
01:04:31-01:04:34
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Eden
01:04:34-01:04:47
Thunderbolts is a better movie, even if I'm very happy with this movie and how this movie went. I did think this was going to be the low point of the three big superhero movies this year, but now I'm a little worried it might be Fantastic Four.

Peter
01:04:46-01:04:47
I've had that same thought.

Eden
01:04:47-01:04:49
We'll see in a couple weeks.

Peter
01:04:48-01:04:50
I have had that same thought.

Eden
01:04:49-01:05:04
I thought for sure Fantastic Four was going to be better than Superman, and today I'm thinking. I don't know. Superman might be better than Fantastic Four, which is disappointing to me personally, but that's okay for the brand, I guess.

Peter
01:05:03-01:05:17
Yeah. Well, good. I'm glad that you enjoyed it as well. I was a little nervous. Like I say, I was really nervous going into this movie, and I'm so happy that I came out of it just going, that was fun. I liked that.

Eden
01:05:17-01:05:18
That was pretty good.

Peter
01:05:18-01:05:46
I liked that it was so Agree, agree.

Eden
01:05:19-01:05:46
That's a pretty good movie. I did. I immediately came home and downloaded Superman 78. And then I haven't gotten to it because I watched the movie on Monday and then I was like, maybe Tuesday. And then I was busy. And then I was like, maybe tonight. And then I realized we were recording tonight. So I have not gotten back to 78, but I'm very curious to revisit that now. Post having seen 2025. They still should have given it a different name. But it's fine.

Peter
01:05:46-01:05:51
Well, Okay.

Eden
01:05:46-01:05:55
Superman to me is that 1978 movie. You can't use this movie. Oh, here's my last complaint. Here's my last complaint. The soundtrack sucks.

Peter
01:05:55-01:05:56
Yes, it's not good.

Eden
01:05:56-01:06:29
Except for the three times they like invoke the Williams theme. And then all that does is make me go. You could have hired better composers than this. James, Jimothy, you could have hired better composers than this. They don't have the juice. And I know you can't get John Williams back. Guys, retired. He finished Rise of Skywalker. He was like, I'm never doing this shit again. I am 8,000 years old. And more power to you, John. Take your flowers and go. But the soundtrack did not have the juice, unfortunately.

Peter
01:06:27-01:06:29
Agreed. Agreed.

Eden
01:06:29-01:06:45
And every time they played that motif, I was like, you're not allowed to do that. You didn't earn that. But that's my, that's one of my, if that's my biggest complaint, is you didn't earn using that musical motif. By having bad composition through the rest of this film, it ain't that bad.

Peter
01:06:44-01:07:05
Yep, it's true. Well, we'll be back in another couple of weeks. Until then, feel free to reach out at feedback at the middleofculture. com and go ahead. And subscribe, share. You can subscribe through your favorite podcast player. We are on YouTube. It is as a YouTube podcast, so you can find it there as well. And until next time.

Eden
01:07:05-01:07:06
We'll see you then.